Why Nintendo, Why?

[KomodoAce]

Nintendo planning friendlier approach to gaming difficulty (http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/nintendo-planning-friendlier-approach-to-game-difficulty/1278610)

I could see this being useful for some games, but the example they give in the article is terrible.

If I skip all the dungeons and go straight to the boss battles, it would be taking away a HUGE part of the Zelda experience.

Then again, maybe I'm overreacting.

[Robobvious]

I just saw that article on Yahoo too, Nintendo and the guy who wrote the article are quite possibly mentally handicapped.

[Umbrae]

They're not going to go through every step of the game... it's probably only for puzzles and how to beat the boss.

And besides, they will probably give you the option to turn the damn thing off.

[WanderingMind]

It sounds like a great idea on paper, but I don't think it will actually work. That's just me, though.

[ReverendHobo]

That's retarded... Why is nintendo trying to castrate it's fans?

Figuring out puzzles and shit on your own is the most important factor of gaming like a man!

[WanderingMind]

I so want to see this for an insanely hard game like Contra or I Wanna Be The Guy if it ever came out for the Wii.

[Heiae]

This is retarded. Games are easy enough as it is nowadays.

[ChukoLiang]

I wanna be the guy? That on WII?

Oh god...

[RedWizard]

You're all totally missing the point. The Third Way is being made for casual gamers, people new to the whole gaming thing. Old Aunt Edna from Podunk isn't quite the gamer you and I are, you see? So rather than scare Aunt Edna from Podunk off, Nintendo is offering a way for her to enjoy everything that we do. Sure, there's always the thrill of victory after vanquishing a tough enemy or solving a difficult puzzle, but sometimes enemies are a little too tough for Aunt Edna from Podunk, and she needs help. She may be older than us, but Aunt Edna from Podunk hasn't been gaming as long as the rest of us. She isn't keen on the things we've learned from experience. Do you really think Aunt Edna from Podunk will know to immediately use a Phoenix Down on a Zombie in Final Fantasy, or know to shoot Goma right in the eye in Zelda? The truth is, we've all been Aunt Edna from Podunk once in our lives, and some of us have had the benefit of an experienced player to help teach us. Some of us haven't, and had to teach ourselves. Nintendo is merely giving Aunt Edna from Podunk the chance to earn the same experience we have. Is that so bad? I didn't think so, unless you're some kinda anti-Nintendo fanboy who's crushed that Nintedo not only has the largest market share, but is expanding it as we speak... Plus, the Third Way is completely optional. You do not have to use it.

[Robobvious]

Um, way to drudge up a 6 month old thread. :|

My opinion about this hasn't changed as long as we're talking about it.

[Rubicant]

Im really not too fussed what nintendo do at this point. They can repackage R.O.B The family robot and he can complete the whole game for you while jerking
off to the latest pokemon movie for all i care. Nintendo did a great job of appealing to the casual market and pushing new technology but at the expense
of its loyal fan base (including myself).

Thank goodness the feature is optional but perhaps by the time WII 2 comes out, it will be the standard
and you ll have to turn it off by default. The biggest concern is that MS and Sony are eager to follow in
Nintendos footsteps...

[Robobvious]

They can repackage R.O.B The family robot and he can complete the whole game for you while jerking off to the latest pokemon movie for all i care.

All my rep are belong to you.

[RedWizard]

Im really not too fussed what nintendo do at this point. They can repackage R.O.B The family robot and he can complete the whole game for you while jerking
off to the latest pokemon movie for all i care. Nintendo did a great job of appealing to the casual market and pushing new technology but at the expense
of its loyal fan base (including myself).

Thank goodness the feature is optional but perhaps by the time WII 2 comes out, it will be the standard
and you ll have to turn it off by default. The biggest concern is that MS and Sony are eager to follow in
Nintendos footsteps...

Well, the fact of the matter is, it all comes down to money. If motion controls are where the money is (as Nintendo is proving), then that's where Sony and Microsoft are going. If helping casual, new and inexperienced gamers is where the money is (as Nintendo will likely prove), then that is where Sony and Microsoft will go. Gaming is in the process of evolution, and, like it or not, this is one of those things that is resulting from that evolution.

Um, way to drudge up a 6 month old thread. :|


PS, there's nothing wrong with reviving old threads.

[AlucardsFate]

Im really not too fussed what nintendo do at this point. They can repackage R.O.B The family robot and he can complete the whole game for you while jerking
off to the latest pokemon movie for all i care. Nintendo did a great job of appealing to the casual market and pushing new technology but at the expense
of its loyal fan base (including myself).

Thank goodness the feature is optional but perhaps by the time WII 2 comes out, it will be the standard
and you ll have to turn it off by default. The biggest concern is that MS and Sony are eager to follow in
Nintendos footsteps...

Let's correct this flawed outlook shall we?

Now most veteran Foxkeiers have heard my stance on this...numerous times. So they can tune out.

But...

"Im really not too fussed what nintendo do at this point. They can repackage R.O.B The family robot and he can complete the whole game for you while jerking off to the latest pokemon movie for all i care. Nintendo did a great job of appealing to the casual market and pushing new technology but at the expense of its loyal fan base (including myself)."

Alienated? I don't think so. I've been in Nintendo's fold since the original NES...(Well I sorta skipped the N64...aside from Zelda) and I'm as happy with them as I've ever been. I have a PS3 and a Wii...and I've played the latter a great deal more. You brought yourself outta their fanbase...ON YOUR OWN. They alienated nobody. It's not like they stopped releasing the games you know and love. The Wii launched with Zelda! Mario, Smash Bros and Metriod followed soon after! IT'S GOT THE FIRST NEW PUNCH OUT GAME IN ROUGHLY 15 YEARS! And yet the ungrateful "Fans" (in quotes for a reason) scream that one E3 passes without a Mario trailer....Then scream that they have been forgotten...even though THEY JUST GOT ALL THE GAMES THEY ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT. How often does Nintendo "Maddenize" it's core game series? What's that ya say? NEVER!? Well gee! The only Nintendo franchise that hasn't shown up that I'd like to see on Wii? F-Zero.

Now they finally bow to your unreasonable pressure and give you a new Zelda...a New Metriod and TWO new Mario games...and your still "alienated"? Nope...your just ungrateful.

And your too stuck in the idea of Casual vs Hardcore..WHICH IS WRONG. I hate the labels in themselves...but if you must apply them...it should read..."Casual and Hardcore" Those of us from the olden days remember a day when gaming was a VERY niche thing. A nerd thing. We were looked down on and kinda in the corner of culture...wishing someone would invite us to the big table...invite others to play with us. Now Nintendo has FINALLY found a way to do it! And...you complain.

As long as this difficulty thing is optional...I'm fine with it. I still wanna play my games at normal difficulty...or go back to the NES masochist days.

Your convinced that your somehow better then the "casuals" because you've been gaming longer. So they wanna play simpler fair...so what? I like uber difficult games...but I also enjoy a big Raving Rabbids game. This is just one more way for those people to experience the games you enjoy...but without putting them off with the crazy difficulty curve of some things. Someday some casual gaming hottie is gonna be talking about how much fun her Wii2 is...and ask you if you've played this new game for it. Here's a hint..."The Wii2 iz the suxorz!" Isn't gonna be an answer she'll like....

Um, way to drudge up a 6 month old thread. :|

My opinion about this hasn't changed as long as we're talking about it.

Oh NOES! He's reviving a dead thread! So it's not just taking up space! He's promoting intelligent debate! OH NOES!

[KnightAttack]

[B]
Let's correct this flawed outlook shall we?

No. Let's not. This is an old thread, and people are entitled to their own opinions.

Rehashes and Repackagings are working for Nintendo, but they will only work for so long.


I have opinions on Nintendo [which just about everyone knows], and there's very little that could be done to change my mind on that. I'm still waiting for a breakout reason to actually pull out and play the Wii and consider it a First-Tier Game Console, rather than anything else.

[AlucardsFate]

No. Let's not.

TOO LATE! I ALREADY DID!

Rehashes? They make sequels...exaclty how sequels should be...the same at the core...but expanded and enhanced with fresh ideas. (Twilight Princess somewhat excluded. It had some ideas...but the wolf thing coulda been cooler) But Mario Galaxy really turned the 3D platformer on it's head...in a literal and technical way.

Those "1st tier" game consoles are more guilty of rehashes then anyone. God of War 3 generates a ton of buzz...but I'd bet money that it's gonna be GOW2 with pretty visuals. (Which would make it GOW1 WITH REALLY PRETTY VISUALS)

Shooters in general...(Which are stupidly popular on the "1st tier" consoles) are pretty much all the same...aside from the occasional exception like Bioshock...which strives for something more. (Giving you more then guns and grenades...and adding a intellgent and compelling world with GOOD acting in it.

Halo 3...is prettier then Halo...but the fact that I can jump right into Halo 3 and play it like I played Halo 1...(4-5 years prior) and still be decent at it...says a lot...(or not very much...depending on how you interpret a rehash)

Killzone 2...(which for whatever reason was the overhyped sequel to a SEVERELY MEDIOCRE game) does nothing fundamentally new...it simply does what the others do...only it does it about prettiest for now.

Who's rehashing now?

[KnightAttack]

TOO LATE! I ALREADY DID!

Rehashes? They make sequels...exaclty how sequels should be...the same at the core...but expanded and enhanced with fresh ideas. (Twilight Princess somewhat excluded. It had some ideas...but the wolf thing coulda been cooler) But Mario Galaxy really turned the 3D platformer on it's head...in a literal and technical way.

No. TP WAS NOT A FUCKING WII GAME. I don't know how many times I have to explain that. It was a Second Gamecube game that Nintendo just ended up Porting over to the Wii. It came out first yes, but only because they hoped it would help the Sales of the Wii.

Rehashes? Yes.

Where's my new Pikmin? Where's my new Mario Tennis? Where's my new Mario Golf? Donkey Kong?

Oh no. Wait......they just Re-released them with "updated" controls [minus Golf].

Again. Rehashes? Let's take your Light/Dark Example.

Offender 1: Twilight Princess
Offender 2: Super Paper Mario
Offender 3: Metroid Prime 3.

Need I go on any further?

No.


Games aren't succeeding like they should be for this console. Only broad-genered games [like Wii Sports], Games to convince Stupid people that they can get in shape [ie: Wii Fit], Games that come with Stupid Peripherals [Wii Play, Mario Kart] are the only ones that are selling. Sure, Mario Galaxy is......but how long did it stay in the Top 10 sales? Not very long.


With that install base, a title like Zach and Wiki should have sold a least 1 million copies. Same goes for any other good [3rd party] title on the Wii.

But have they? No. Why? Because it's a second-tier gaming system. It's the system that owns the closet. It's what you bring out when you have a few friends/family over just to entertain them for a while.

And again, I'll pose the question, Where does Nintendo go from here?

[AlucardsFate]

No. TP WAS NOT A FUCKING WII GAME. I don't know how many times I have to explain that. It was a Second Gamecube game that Nintendo just ended up Porting over to the Wii. It came out first yes, but only because they hoped it would help the Sales of the Wii.

Rehashes? Yes.

Where's my new Pikmin? Where's my new Mario Tennis? Where's my new Mario Golf? Donkey Kong?

Oh no. Wait......they just Re-released them with "updated" controls [minus Golf].

Again. Rehashes? Let's take your Light/Dark Example.

Offender 1: Twilight Princess
Offender 2: Super Paper Mario
Offender 3: Metroid Prime 3.

Need I go on any further?

No.


Games aren't succeeding like they should be for this console. Only broad-genered games [like Wii Sports], Games to convince Stupid people that they can get in shape , Games that come with Stupid Peripherals [Wii Play, Mario Kart] are the only ones that are selling. Sure, Mario Galaxy is......but how long did it stay in the Top 10 sales? Not very long.


With that install base, a title like Zach and Wiki should have sold a least 1 million copies. Same goes for any other good [3rd party] title on the Wii.

But have they? No. Why? Because it's a second-tier gaming system. It's the system that owns the closet. It's what you bring out when you have a few friends/family over just to entertain them for a while.

And again, I'll pose the question, Where does Nintendo go from here?

They stay the course. Wii are winning. (if such a thing exists...)

I dunno if you've seen my entertainment center...but my Wii certainly isn't in a closet. (Well I don't have a closet) So TP was ported to Wii...to stimulate sales...they still gave us a Zelda...and people bitched that there was no Zelda video at the next available game show. And besides...IT WORKED. They sold a boatload of Wii's! That is what we in a capitalist America called...SMART BUSINESS STRATEGY!

Let's put your theory about the sales to the test. I have gone to vgchartz.com...this is the top 21. Why 21? Because Wii Sports is a pack in. Therefore it doesn't count.


NCAA Football 10 (360)
NCAA Football 10 (PS3)
Wii Sports (Wii)
Wii Fit (Wii)
Mario Kart Wii (Wii)
Fight Night Round 4 (360)
EA Sports Active (Wii)
NCAA Football 10 (PS2)
Fight Night Round 4 (PS3)
UFC 2009 Undisputed (360)
Prototype (360)
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10 (Wii)
Pokemon Platinum (DS)
New Super Mario Bros (DS)
Fable 2 (360)
Wii Play (Wii)
Punch-Out!! (Wii)
Mega Man Star Force 3: Black Ace/Red Joker (DS)
NCAA Football 10 (PSP)
Mario Kart DS (DS)
Prototype (PS3)


The majority of the games are for Wii...and they are the "Broad Range" games you mention. But let's remove those. Your "1st tier" system titles. MOST OF THEM ARE SPORTS GAMES...WITH YEARLY TITLES. Certainly [I]those aren't rehashes. *rolls eyes*

You have Fable 2 and Prototype. Those non-rehash games aren't moving on the Wii? Yeah...seems that way. But the same is true for the PS3 and 360! The Wii even managed to sneak one on there. Punch-Out!!

Should a game like No More Heroes have done better? I wish it had...but it's getting a sequel...so surely it didn't do poorly. I stopped at 21...but The Conduit is sitting pretty at #28! That's a Wii game...that isn't one of those "broad range" titles you seem to despise.

BUT...the heart of the issue...is that The Wii has brought more people into the fold...and that's somehow a bad thing! I love that I have more people to play with and talk games with! I sold a DS at work...to a woman...who appeared to be nearing 40...AND IT WAS FOR HER. That's fantastic.

[ReverendHobo]

You guys already know my stance on nintendo. (Hey hey! I'm the tenth person to say that now!)

Anyways, I sort of look on Nintendo's massive success via cranking out shitty minigame collections and "toys" with a weird sort of pity. Yeah, good on 'em for winning this generation after losing hard the last two. But I honestly think that they're shooting themselves in the foot by catering so heavily to the casual market while largely ignoring "core" games (Sorry Alucard, but you really can't deny that they exist).

But I think most of the people that bought the wii (The people who aren't really big gamers) won't continue buying games for it. I do truly hope that non-gamers get an interest in gaming and start buying Ace titles like Zelda and Mario Galaxy, but I think that the Wii may just be a "fad" among the 40-year-old housewives and Auntie June. They probably won't have any interest in anything but the minigame collections, and after wii sports, wii music, and maybe wii sports resort. They won't bother getting anything else.

I can use first hand experiences with this. When I had a Wii, I'd play it with my parents and I took it when we visited relatives. And they loved Wii sports, but as soon as I put in a different game and tried to get them in on it they got tired of it within minutes.

So eventually the non-gamers will stop buying wii games and there will be a drop in sales, I can feel it.

I don't pretend to know the intricacies of business or even how people think, but it seems to me like this is the logical progression of events.

Do I hate Nintendo? No, but I am a bit irked that their console has basically become the dumping ground for any two-bit developer to shovel their "horsies" game they cranked out in a weekend. And I'm somewhat afraid that Microsoft and Sony will follow suit, only seeing the dollar-signs.

[Runepop]

I have opinions on Nintendo [which just about everyone knows], and there's very little that could be done to change my mind on that. I'm still waiting for a breakout reason to actually pull out and play the Wii and consider it a First-Tier Game Console, rather than anything else.


I dont know your opinion or anyone elses here about nintendo but heres a good reson to play the wii (acually I think my only reason.) is when your playing fighting games you have the satisfactory of the fighting movements instead of just pressing buttons. It makes you fell like you beat the shit out of whatever instead of the character on the game.

Example the DBZ games Take a really strong character and then pick the character you hate the most or find really annoying for me captain ginyu. After you win you feel a whole lot better because you kicked his ass.

[Heiae]

I think we've had a discussion here before almost exactly like this!

Not that I'm whining or anything, of course. It's just crazy how these things repeat.

I blame Alucards.

:neko_045:

[Kbmaster1]

I think we've had a discussion here before almost exactly like this!

Not that I'm whining or anything, of course. It's just crazy how these things repeat.

I blame Alucards.

:neko_045:

If it's any consolation, I really never liked the Wii so I'm not getting in any further than what I just got.

Every time I get on here and I see a major discussion the little voice pops in my head and it says... "dance gladiators, dance!!! mwahahahahaha!!!"

[Heiae]

When do we not have a discussion like this?

Every time I get on here and I see a major discussion the little voice pops in my head and it says... "dance gladiators, dance!!! mwahahahahaha!!!"

No, I mean one on this very subject!

[Runepop]

who knows.

:neko_018: Now obey me!! Bring me a cookie.

[Robobvious]

Don't overreact to my comment, I just thought it was odd to bring this up out of the blue after months of not talking about it. I feel it's akin to me calling one of my friends up right now and going "Hey you remember that party we went to in January? That was a good party!", there's nothing wrong with it, it's just a bit odd and unexpected.

I feel Nintendo is destroying the games industry by creating a console that allows crap games to flood the market which John Q. Everygamer may buy because they can't tell the difference between a potentially good game and an obviously crap one. So the companies that actually produce good games are going to start losing money to the crap and if they lose enough they'll go under and less good games will exist. And I feel this idea will keep John Q. interested in the crap thus it is a bad idea in my eyes. I don't see this being the downfall of the videogame industry but I don't think it's good for it.

[Grand_OoF]

...Wow...uh...this all came outta nowhere...

<_<

>_>

._.

Well, I could sit here and counter-point, but as Heiae already pointed out, there's a dead thread dedicated entirely to that point, and I spent about two or three pages doing so. Plus, I've just come to the realization that trying to convince anyone here on Foxkei on the Pro-Wii platform is about as futile as them trying to convince me on the Pro-PS3 platform.

I will say THIS though, in response to Hobo's comment.

I think...honestly...that using the terms like "hardcore" versus "casual" is really a buzz word sort of BS.

What's the difference between the negative stigma of being a "casual" gamer and the negative stigma MOST of us probably dealt with as a "nerd" growing up in middle school/high school? Sure, things are looking great for nerds NOW. Suddenly it's cool to be a nerd. It sure as hell wasn't when I was in middle school though.

But I'm not accusing anyone here of giving "casual gamers" swirlies...I'm just saying...

But anyway, honestly, if we love to game, really, what difference does it make in how or what we play? What's the component that makes us a "hardcore gamer"? The amount of time we spend? The amount of violence in our games? The difficulty level? The knowledge in the industry? How many FPSes we play?

If we're going to go along those lines...then I guess to most of you, I'm NOT "hardcore". Most of my games are E to T...with only a few M games in the mix. Not because I have something against violent games...but because those are the games that generally appeal to me. Among my game collection, most of them are not games I would call exceptionally difficult, and these days I rarely have time to play games. And to be honest FPSes was never a genre I was a terribly big fan of. So I guess the only thing that makes me a gamer is I just happen to have an interest in the hobby/industry and I follow it alot and play when I can.

I'm not saying that Nintendo isn't doing some pandering here...but that's no different then any other company. Sony and Microsoft are both hopping on the "Mii" and "motion sensor" craze, because...hey...they want to expand the market to include more "casual" gamers...and that's where the money is.

But that's really not a bad thing though. I mean, honestly, don't we WANT to expand the video gaming to other, outside individuals and view points? That's how the industry will survive, and how we can make gaming something beyond just a bunch of dedicated nerds on the net. I mean...think about it. 10 years ago, unless you said Batman or Superman no one had any idea about comic books. Now people know about The Mask, Hellboy, Spider-Man, Scott Pilgrim, Iron Man, Green Lantern and all the other various comics you could think of, because they've been exposed to a "casual comic book audience" and that's going to mean there's more comic movies, merchandise, cartoons, animes and general acceptance for all of us.

I don't see that as a bad thing, personally.

[Robobvious]

...Wow...uh...this all came outta nowhere...

<_<

>_>

._.

Well, I could sit here and counter-point, but as Heiae already pointed out, there's a dead thread dedicated entirely to that point, and I spent about two or three pages doing so. Plus, I've just come to the realization that trying to convince anyone here on Foxkei on the Pro-Wii platform is about as futile as them trying to convince me on the Pro-PS3 platform.

I will say THIS though, in response to Hobo's comment.

I think...honestly...that using the terms like "hardcore" versus "casual" is really a buzz word sort of BS.

What's the difference between the negative stigma of being a "casual" gamer and the negative stigma MOST of us probably dealt with as a "nerd" growing up in middle school/high school? Sure, things are looking great for nerds NOW. Suddenly it's cool to be a nerd. It sure as hell wasn't when I was in middle school though.

But I'm not accusing anyone here of giving "casual gamers" swirlies...I'm just saying...

But anyway, honestly, if we love to game, really, what difference does it make in how or what we play? What's the component that makes us a "hardcore gamer"? The amount of time we spend? The amount of violence in our games? The difficulty level? The knowledge in the industry? How many FPSes we play?

If we're going to go along those lines...then I guess to most of you, I'm NOT "hardcore". Most of my games are E to T...with only a few M games in the mix. Not because I have something against violent games...but because those are the games that generally appeal to me. Among my game collection, most of them are not games I would call exceptionally difficult, and these days I rarely have time to play games. And to be honest FPSes was never a genre I was a terribly big fan of. So I guess the only thing that makes me a gamer is I just happen to have an interest in the hobby/industry and I follow it alot and play when I can.

I'm not saying that Nintendo isn't doing some pandering here...but that's no different then any other company. Sony and Microsoft are both hopping on the "Mii" and "motion sensor" craze, because...hey...they want to expand the market to include more "casual" gamers...and that's where the money is.

But that's really not a bad thing though. I mean, honestly, don't we WANT to expand the video gaming to other, outside individuals and view points? That's how the industry will survive, and how we can make gaming something beyond just a bunch of dedicated nerds on the net. I mean...think about it. 10 years ago, unless you said Batman or Superman no one had any idea about comic books. Now people know about The Mask, Hellboy, Spider-Man, Scott Pilgrim, Iron Man, Green Lantern and all the other various comics you could think of, because they've been exposed to a "casual comic book audience" and that's going to mean there's more comic movies, merchandise, cartoons, animes and general acceptance for all of us.

I don't see that as a bad thing, personally.

Well clearly there's 2 sides to it, it is good in that it's bringing in a whole group of previously unreached customers, but if they unknowingly keep buying shit then it becomes a negative thing.

[Grand_OoF]

Well clearly there's 2 sides to it, it is good in that it's bringing in a whole group of previously unreached customers, but if they unknowingly keep buying shit then it becomes a negative thing.

That's very true. But shovel ware isn't new...

http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/NintendoFB19/260px-Action_52_NES_box_art.jpg

...and it's not exclusive to Nintendo.

http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/NintendoFB19/News1_7.jpg

http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/NintendoFB19/37186.jpg

I certainly agree that buying CRAP is bad, and that there's an unhealthy amount on the Wii.

http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/NintendoFB19/anbii-wii-sw-wwu.jpg
For example...

But I don't see that as the fault of people new to gaming...directly. Nor do I see that as Nintendo's fault...directly. I see that as MAINLY the fault of lazy developers who see an opportunity in the machine that prints money, and then choose to make a quick buck on the ignorant at the expense of...well...having a good game.

Really, we should be outraged at DEVELOPERS. Not a community.

[KnightAttack]

*Note: I'm refusing to continue discussing with Alucards because he refuses to acknowledge anyone else opinion, nor give up a good counter-defense*

Well clearly there's 2 sides to it, it is good in that it's bringing in a whole group of previously unreached customers, but if they unknowingly keep buying shit then it becomes a negative thing.

I think the biggest problem is, people cannot comprehend what has happened. Definitions have been changed.

People who use to just play once or twice a week, bought a game a month were considered "Casual". However, do to [mostly Nintendo], these terms have been redefined.

"Casual" now represents a person who owns a system [75% of the time being a Wii], but buys the same 4 games as everyone else, and never buys another. THAT is the NEW casual.


I've tried to parlay this feeling, and it's why I think that the Wii is a second-tier system. It is for exactly that market. People buy the 360 and PS3 to play games, or at least, a different kind of game then the Wii.

The Wii is an illegitimate-bastard child of the Gaming generation that may well put us back into a complete crash the same way it almost killed everything in 1982, or after the .com bust of 2000 almost subtly destroyed it as well.

More money, and less money [oddly], is being spent on games, [ie: Big budget titles like Splinter Cell, and smaller ones like Raving Rabbids- both Ubisoft] which is dividing the market.

This WILL all come to a head, as companies begin to disappear because of titles under preforming, leaving the consumers screwed.

The Quantity of Games is absurd, and much more pushing out of the quality of games, and mostly, we have the Wii to thank for that.

[RedWizard]

Don't overreact to my comment, I just thought it was odd to bring this up out of the blue after months of not talking about it. I feel it's akin to me calling one of my friends up right now and going "Hey you remember that party we went to in January? That was a good party!", there's nothing wrong with it, it's just a bit odd and unexpected.

I feel Nintendo is destroying the games industry by creating a console that allows crap games to flood the market which John Q. Everygamer may buy because they can't tell the difference between a potentially good game and an obviously crap one. So the companies that actually produce good games are going to start losing money to the crap and if they lose enough they'll go under and less good games will exist. And I feel this idea will keep John Q. interested in the crap thus it is a bad idea in my eyes. I don't see this being the downfall of the videogame industry but I don't think it's good for it.

This exact situation is no different than when Sony released the PSX and marketed it to the previously untapped population. And hey, guess what, there was plenty of substandard games on the PSX then too. For every good PSX title there was three bad titles. And surprisingly, we got through that era without too much of a hitch. Sure, we had to share space at the game store with new people, but really, is that a bad thing? No, it is not. I should also point out that it falls to us, the Circle of Nerdom, to help newcomers to the gaming scene tell the good titles from the bad. That's why when Aunt Edna from Podunk visits you next Thanksgiving, you help her shop for your nieces and nephews and who knows, maybe along the way Aunt Edna from Podunk night find something she's interested in, and then you're there to inform Aunt Edna from Podunk as to the specifics of the game. And there's always gaming magazines and websites (except 1up and gamespot) you can introduce Aunt Edna from Podunk to.

[Rubicant]

[B][COLOR="Black"]
Let's correct this flawed outlook shall we?...

...It's not like they stopped releasing the games you know and love.The
Wii launched with Zelda! Mario, Smash Bros and Metriod followed soon
after! IT'S GOT THE FIRST NEW PUNCH OUT GAME IN ROUGHLY 15
YEARS! The only Nintendo franchise that hasn't shown up that I'd
like to see on Wii? F-Zero.

Now they finally bow to your unreasonable pressure and give you a new Zelda...a New Metriod and TWO new Mario games...and your still "alienated"? Nope...your just ungrateful.[b]

I wouldnt say ungrateful. More like dissapointed.

YOu ve been with nintendo since the nes days. Interesting. Its where i
started as well. My passion for gaming developed on the nes and probably
reached it peak by the latter years of the PS1 (even if i didnt know it at the time). Back
then Nintendo had wonderful and original first party games but their strength
also came from thrid party developers. Much of that strength
was lost with the release of N64 and to be honest...to this day it still hasnt
really recovered. Yes with the success of the wii that third party support
is stronger than its even been but most titles that appear are either crap,
gimmicky or better suited on the 360 or PS3.

As for first party titles...i started to get bored of seeing the same mario games...the f-zeros, the metroids
the punchouts and possibly even the Zeldas (with exception of ocarina and majoras mask).
Perhaps id be more forgiving if said titles were a revolutionary leap in videogames...but there not.
Heck, if your happy to keep playing the same 8 or nine 1st party rehash titles for the next 20 years...
hav at it but i wont be there to share the exp with u brother.

[B][COLOR="Black"]

And your too stuck in the idea of Casual vs Hardcore..WHICH IS WRONG. Those of us from the olden days remember a day when gaming was a VERY niche thing. We were looked down on and kinda in the corner of culture...wishing someone would invite us to the big table. Now Nintendo has FINALLY found a way to do it! And...you complain. [b]

You assume too much. Actually i had a very social exp playing videogames
in my early and late teens. Balanced between intense sessions with final
fantasy series and then streetfighter and goldeneyes tournaments at friends
houses. But your right about one thing. Im not a fan of the casual gamer to put it lightly.
As far back as i can remember, i never wanted to play games with my
my mum or grand dad or little sister. Just like i dont want to play with these kind of people today and its one of many reasons
why i sold my wii and will never own one again. Casual gamers are also one
of the contributing factors why PC gaming is dieing with the added insult
of seeing badly ported console games that were sometimes even originally
intended for the pc. Well torrenting is also a factor but its a real shame
that the John Doe's or Suzy Q's cant figure out basic requirements of x,y,z pc
title.

I dont consider myself hardcore (maybe somewhere in middle) but it is the
casual gamer who has helped shaped the land scape we see today.
Too many sequels and rehashes and not enough innovation. Game devlopers
are too scared to take chances but part of the problem lies with gamers for not
taking a stance or reading reviews and putting their money into titles that deserve to be purchased. Bit of vicious circle really.

It great business to chase after the masses but when ever you appeal to
the lowest common denominator, as in the case of gaming...a lot of people
lose out. I just see the market tiping the scale in favour of the casual
user, which inveriably alienates genuiner gamers like us. Perhaps my thoughts
on the subject are more personal here at this forum but i guarantee that my friends share the same outlook.

[B][COLOR="Black"]
Your convinced that your somehow better then the "casuals" because you've been gaming longer. So they wanna play simpler fair...so what? I like uber difficult games...but I also enjoy a big Raving Rabbids game. This is just one more way for those people to experience the games you enjoy...but without putting them off with the crazy difficulty curve of some things. Someday some casual gaming hottie is gonna be talking about how much fun her Wii2 is...and ask you if you've played this new game for it. Here's a hint..."The Wii2 iz the suxorz!" Isn't gonna be an answer she'll like....
[b]

I dont beleive that im better than anyone. For me it has always been about
the games. Nothing more, nothing less. My expressed opinions are my own and not
gospel. Perhaps ive experienced the best of what my generation of
gaming had to offer. I dont relate to many games that my younger brothers
play but thats only becuase those titles are there first experience in that
genre where as ive seen countless iterations of that same title (minus
the bugs, the poor progamming, amongst other short commings). Its
also dissapointing to see how easy it is to complete games these days,
no thanks to multiple save points, unlimted continues, unchallenging gameplay, etc, etc...
So the idea of adding assist modes or reducing
the challenge is even less appealing.

Perhaps in ten years this generation of gamers will feel the same way that i do but i sincerely hope by
then that gaming has moved to another plato.

Because this is part of the problem as well. Most of what u see today interms
of new titles and IP's is only incremental evolutions. SMalll updates on pre existing
templates that hav existed for some time. Its a revolution in gaming that im talking about.
N64 did it with 3d gaming and control stick...Wii kind of did
something with motion, but for me it still not enough. Whether its full immersion via headset, SOme form of AI interactions or even
electrodes hooked up to your nipples lol. Hell id just be happy if these programmers and delvopers went back to their roots and took more risks.
I dont know but we ll c what future holds.

I wont have anything to say about the wii2 to that hottie becuase I ll be
too busy trying to get her into my bed. Never head of Wii envy b4 :P

[RedWizard]

N64 did it with 3d gaming and control stick...

Actually, SEGA produced the first analog stick for a game console.

[KnightAttack]

This exact situation is no different than when Sony released the PSX and marketed it to the previously untapped population.



But regardless, you have a point, to a point.

The PS1 did produce some crappy games, as did others before it [go back to the Atari 2600 vs Intellevision].


But, I would contend that Sony didn't greatly expand the market as much as the Wii has, nor has the amount of Shitty titles that have come out are even comparable to now.


I mean really, the Wii is like a 25 to 1 ratio of Shitty versus decent, whereas the PSone was more like, 2 to 7 type area. Yes, there were bad games, but not as many bad ones as there are now.

Maybe that's something more to do with the knowledge of games now, I really don't know, but it is getting ridiculous the amount of pure-crap that is out there. Just wander on down to your local Wal-Mart and look at what's in the case, and what's in the $20 or less bin. The Wii titles are pushing PS3 and 360 10 to 1 in those, and the large majority of them suck.

[Rubicant]

Actually, SEGA produced the first analog stick for a game console.

I was suprised to hear that. Just doubled check and apparently...

"In 1996 Nintendo introduced the first analog thumbstick on the Nintendo 64 controller. Since then, all major video game console controllers have included analog sticks."

If u want to get even more technical

"In 1982 the first analog joystick on a console system was introduced on the Atari 5200."

Who ever came out with the first analogue stick is only a side issue.

@Knightattack
Im not even sure myself on exact figures but i play and complete maybe 6-8 games per year on average.
2-3 of which id highly recommend. Anything else is just worth a rental. Other wise we re talking 1% or less for each system. But thats really subjective.

[Grand_OoF]

Much of that strength
was lost with the release of N64 and to be honest...to this day it still hasnt
really recovered. Yes with the success of the wii that third party support
is stronger than its even been but most titles that appear are either crap,
gimmicky or better suited on the 360 or PS3.

Well, personally, I agree with you that the N64 was probably Nintendo's WEAKEST time. They had no reason to hold onto cartridges, but they did. And as a result their third party support was AWFUL. (You think there's crappy games on Wii...at least there's 3rd Party support. Try playing a system with almost no support and 95% of those games are garbage...at least the Wii's ratios are more favorable...)

I do have a question though...why/how is a non-crappy, non-gimmicky game better suited for 360/PS3? Isn't that...I dunno...stereo-typing? Wouldn't it make MORE sense to release great games like Little King's Story, Mad World, Muruamasa: The Demon Blade and Tatsunoko vs Capcom on a system that is...in your opinion...in NEED of a higher caliber of games anyway?

I don't follow your train of logic here. You can't make third party support BETTER by putting all the good games on other systems. Would they sell better? Debatable. If that logic were true, Disgaea wouldn't have been such a sleeper hit the FIRST time it came out.

As for first party titles...i started to get bored of seeing the same mario games...the f-zeros, the metroids
the punchouts and possibly even the Zeldas (with exception of ocarina and majoras mask).
Perhaps id be more forgiving if said titles were a revolutionary leap in videogames...but there not.

I certainly won't argue this point. Nintendo is famous for rehashing ideas.

...Then again...who isn't?

Aside from looking better, what exactly WERE the revolutionary differences between the Ratchet and Clank, God of War, Devil May Cry, Halo and Gears of War and Kill Zone games?

I'm not saying you're wrong. I actually agree with you. But the thing with Nintendo is every time they take chance...no one buys their sh**. Think about it.

-Elite Beat Agents
-Pikmin
-Eternal Darkness
-Drill Dozer

...All well recieved and highly acclaimed. All excellent games.

...All did sh*** (though Pikmin DID get a sequel...and presumably another one).

The truth of the matter is we LIKE what's familiar. I admit I'd like to see Miyamoto do more with Zelda (Wind Waker was personally my favorite of the 3D ones, because at least it decided to take a different art direction) but if you threw me into a Zelda game where suddenly Link's three time's beefier, beating the sh** out of things with his bare hands, foaming at the mouth, and the Master Sword is also a chainsaw...I dunno. Somehow I don't think I'd react very positively to that.

...However, I wouldn't mind seeing that as a seperate game...

You assume too much. Actually i had a very social exp playing videogames
in my early and late teens. Balanced between intense sessions with final
fantasy series and then streetfighter and goldeneyes tournaments at friends
houses. But your right about one thing. Im not a fan of the casual gamer to put it lightly.
As far back as i can remember, i never wanted to play games with my
my mum or grand dad or little sister. Just like i dont want to play with these kind of people today and its one of many reasons

Your experince to mine is similar, so I can say this much. I used to play games with my friends and brothers all the time too. I had a lot of fun with it. But that didn't mean that not being understood by the rest of my peers hurt any less. Your attitude toward those new to gaming isn't a lot better.

What's wrong with Grandpa and Grandma, or Mom and Dad? Those people built the best cars and fought and died and wars so I could be ignorant and happy today. They made it to the f**king moon and back, and made steps in civil rights. THEY GAVE ME THE F**KING BEATLES AND LED ZEPPLIN. I don't just want to get those people to play with me if I can, I respect and admire those people.

Grant you, trying to show my Mom how to play Super Mario World back when I was 8 was an ordeal...but you know what? Those are some of the fondest gaming memories I have. That and playing Wii Bowling with her when I first got the Wii, or WATCHING my brothers play Chrono Trigger and FF3 while we read along together and even playing Mario Party with my Grandpa before he passed on (God rest his soul).

I dont consider myself hardcore (maybe somewhere in middle) but it is the
casual gamer who has helped shaped the land scape we see today.
Too many sequels and rehashes and not enough innovation. Game devlopers
are too scared to take chances but part of the problem lies with gamers for not
taking a stance or reading reviews and putting their money into titles that deserve to be purchased. Bit of vicious circle really.


It great business to chase after the masses but when ever you appeal to
the lowest common denominator, as in the case of gaming...a lot of people
lose out. I just see the market tiping the scale in favour of the casual
user, which inveriably alienates genuiner gamers like us. Perhaps my thoughts
on the subject are more personal here at this forum but i guarantee that my friends share the same outlook.

The problem you're describing isn't exclusive to Nintendo or "casual gamers" though. Developers are taking you for a sap just as much as when you buy Halo 3.2: MORE SHOOTIN'! as they are when Nana buys That Non-Threatening Wii Game all the Grand Kids are playing.

Because this is part of the problem as well. Most of what u see today interms
of new titles and IP's is only incremental evolutions. SMalll updates on pre existing
templates that hav existed for some time. Its a revolution in gaming that im talking about.
N64 did it with 3d gaming and control stick...Wii kind of did
something with motion, but for me it still not enough. Whether its full immersion via headset, SOme form of AI interactions or even
electrodes hooked up to your nipples lol. Hell id just be happy if these programmers and delvopers went back to their roots and took more risks.
I dont know but we ll c what future holds.

I do agree with this. The industry isn't taking enough chances. But again, that's not an exclusive Nintendo problem here. If you're so wanting for change, perhaps you should try a game or genre you hadn't considered before. Who knows?

I mean really, the Wii is like a 25 to 1 ratio of Shitty versus decent, whereas the PSone was more like, 2 to 7 type area. Yes, there were bad games, but not as many bad ones as there are now

Personally, I'd have to disagree with this. Admittingly, there were plenty of good games on the PSX...that's why my brothers and I switched to it versus Nintendo (that and FF VII)...but I'd have to say that numbers weren't QUITE as strong as you're thinking. Nor do I think they're QUITE that bad with Nintendo. The ratio isn't fantastic, no, but it's not THAT bad.

[Robobvious]

But regardless, you have a point, to a point.

The PS1 did produce some crappy games, as did others before it [go back to the Atari 2600 vs Intellevision].


But, I would contend that Sony didn't greatly expand the market as much as the Wii has, nor has the amount of Shitty titles that have come out are even comparable to now.


I mean really, the Wii is like a 25 to 1 ratio of Shitty versus decent, whereas the PSone was more like, 2 to 7 type area. Yes, there were bad games, but not as many bad ones as there are now.

Maybe that's something more to do with the knowledge of games now, I really don't know, but it is getting ridiculous the amount of pure-crap that is out there. Just wander on down to your local Wal-Mart and look at what's in the case, and what's in the $20 or less bin. The Wii titles are pushing PS3 and 360 10 to 1 in those, and the large majority of them suck.

Yeah I definitely don't remember it having nearly as much crap as the Wii does now. And PS one had some AWESOME games, I feel like the good Wii games I have are still only good or average.

[AlucardsFate]

I love you Alex....

But that is crux of the issue isn't it. The double standard most of you seem to operate under. If Nintendo makes a mistake...maybe releases a game that's similiar to a previous game....IT'S ABSOLUTELY NOT OKAY. THEY SHOULD BE DAMNED TO HELL FOR IT. But when MS, Sony or anyone else does it...IN EXCESS EVEN...it's fine.

Like I said before and Alex just mentioned...just how are the God of War's...Gear's of Wars, Halo's, Killzones, Generic alien shooter #5, etc not rehashes? What are the fundamental differences between Halo: Combat Evolved and Halo 3? I've played them both...and I can say...not much. (You have a sword in Halo 3?)

As far as the crappy to good game ratio...I've admitted that it is slightly higher on the Wii. It's ALWAYS been that way on Nintendo consoles. Even the SNES had a ton of shovelware....

But when you say this, your forgetting one of the most basic principles of business. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY THEM. Just because they are on the shelf...doesn't somehow require you to buy them. Don't buy them and they will fade away into obscurity...the world makes sense again.

And Alex is right...the industry doesn't take enough chances. But again...he also says this is an industry wide problem...and it absolutely is. You blame Nintendo for EVERYONE'S problem...when they take the most chances...

I wouldnt say ungrateful. More like dissapointed.

YOu ve been with nintendo since the nes days. Interesting. Its where i
started as well. My passion for gaming developed on the nes and probably
reached it peak by the latter years of the PS1 (even if i didnt know it at the time). Back
then Nintendo had wonderful and original first party games but their strength
also came from thrid party developers. Much of that strength
was lost with the release of N64 and to be honest...to this day it still hasnt
really recovered. Yes with the success of the wii that third party support
is stronger than its even been but most titles that appear are either crap,
gimmicky or better suited on the 360 or PS3.

As for first party titles...i started to get bored of seeing the same mario games...the f-zeros, the metroids
the punchouts and possibly even the Zeldas (with exception of ocarina and majoras mask).
Perhaps id be more forgiving if said titles were a revolutionary leap in videogames...but there not.
Heck, if your happy to keep playing the same 8 or nine 1st party rehash titles for the next 20 years...
hav at it but i wont be there to share the exp with u brother.

I don't see their sequels as rehashes...the Zelda ones have gotten similar but they do try to add something to change up the game. Sometimes for the better...(Wind Waker's naval adventuring cartoony style) or worse (Boring wolf missions in TP) But at least they try. While other apparently "Guiltless" publishers like Sony have God of War 1 and 2...which I have beaten both...AND THEY ARE THE SAME GAME. But Mario Galaxy was a leap forward. The basic Gameplay remained the same...but they added a new idea...they literally took gravity and perspective and toyed with the whole thing. I didn't really dig Mario 64 and Sunshine...I didn't finish either...but I got EVERY SINGLE STAR in Galaxy. I could not stop playing it....(And I'm not a completionist....)

By the way, I dunno how you can call Punch Out a rehash...the first sequel in 15 years or a little longer...and they don't really change the game itself...but allow you to play it a new way! Rehash indeed...*Rolls eyes*

But you also don't...want more people to game with? That...is well...odd. Why wouldn't you want to play with others? Do you hate other people? (You may hate me by now...but that's normal...you got into a debate with Alucards...they don't end. Welcome to Foxkei!) I think it's great that for the longest time my mom didn't understand what the deal with games was...till she found those karaoke games...

I dont consider myself hardcore (maybe somewhere in middle) but it is the
casual gamer who has helped shaped the land scape we see today.
Too many sequels and rehashes and not enough innovation. Game devlopers
are too scared to take chances but part of the problem lies with gamers for not
taking a stance or reading reviews and putting their money into titles that deserve to be purchased. Bit of vicious circle really.

It great business to chase after the masses but when ever you appeal to
the lowest common denominator, as in the case of gaming...a lot of people
lose out. I just see the market tiping the scale in favour of the casual
user, which inveriably alienates genuiner gamers like us. Perhaps my thoughts
on the subject are more personal here at this forum but i guarantee that my friends share the same outlook.

You may not consider yourself "hardcore" but you certainly think your better then the supposed "casuals". Guess how I know? You just refereed to them as "the lowest common denominator." You so obviously detest them and think them below you. But this is common. People just need to learn...that your not any better then they are. You just like different games....We are all just gamers. They aren't destroying your hobby, they are adding a new segment to it. "Hardcore" genres will never die out. But the word hardcore...is usually used to describe violent M-Rated games btw. I'm not saying your using it that way...But that is it's usual meaning among the "RARAHRGHGHA! HARDCORE!" crowd. By definition...Mario lacks violence and therefore can NEVER be hardcore. So even if all that shovelware disappeared...people would still say Nintendo ain't hardcore. Because they don't make the RARAHRAHRHG! VIOLENCE! games...

[Rubicant]

I do have a question though...why/how is a non-crappy, non-gimmicky game better suited for 360/PS3?....I don't follow your train of logic here. You can't make third party support BETTER by putting all the good games on other systems.

I was refering more to the multiplatform titles that appear on all three consoles. Another bane of the gaming world! lol Unique IP are better
suited to their respective platforms. In fact i wish more was done to
increase the number of platform exlusives. There little point these
days to own more than one console.


Aside from looking better, what exactly WERE the revolutionary differences between the Ratchet and Clank, God of War, Devil May Cry, Halo and Gears of War and Kill Zone games?

Whether your talking about there predessors or direct sequels..the answer
is very little but games like halo1 and gears of war certainly added to
the distinction of existing and future fps. Most do very little to raise the bar so to speak.[/QUOTE]



I'm not saying you're wrong. I actually agree with you. But the thing with Nintendo is every time they take chance...no one buys their sh**. Think about it.

-Elite Beat Agents
-Pikmin
-Eternal Darkness
-Drill Dozer

...All well recieved and highly acclaimed. All excellent games.
...All did sh***

The truth of the matter is we LIKE what's familiar.


I dont consider this problem exclusive to nintendo. You've used some
good examples but i feel that gaming in general regardless of which
platform it appears on does little to innovate and excite.

I dont like whats familar. I genuinely look forward to new titles (okami,
little big planet,etc) and love being suprised. Unfortuanltey a games
success is determined by how well it sells. Not by its content or originality.


Your experience to mine is similar, so I can say this much. I used to play games with my friends and brothers all the time too. I had a lot of fun with it. But that didn't mean that not being understood by the rest of my peers hurt any less. Your attitude toward those new to gaming isn't a lot better...

What's wrong with Grandpa and Grandma, or Mom and Dad? T


Im not concened whether my fellow peer understands me or not.
Just dissapointed with much of the gaming scene. Aside from the
excellent 360 Live service that changed the way we play games,
I havent really got excited over anything since portal or Braid.

Grandpa, grandma, mum and da can do whatever they want. IMO I just think the energy and time utilised on marketing to the casual gamer could be better spent on making me happy :P I know that sounds illogical but the hell with it lol. The truth is out.


If you're so wanting for change, perhaps you should try a game or genre you hadn't considered before. Who knows?

The problem does not only lie with nintendo as you said. Perhaps gaming
is as far at it can go in this generation. Perhaps my expectations are
too high, perhaps its not all in my head and gaming really is at its nadir.
Whatever the case, i'll likely play less and less games as times goes by
and maybe its enevitable that 90% of most games will be crap and
saturate the market for years to come. At the end of the day i ll certainly cheer on those developers who takes chances and offer something
different. In fact i look forward to being suprised and will gladly share some praise when i make a review here at Foxkei ;)


Personally, I'd have to disagree with this. Admittingly, there were plenty of good games on the PSX...that's why my brothers and I switched to it versus Nintendo (that and FF VII)...but I'd have to say that numbers weren't QUITE as strong as you're thinking. Nor do I think they're QUITE that bad with Nintendo. The ratio isn't fantastic, no, but it's not THAT bad.

I didnt say that it didnt. Youve quoted from another post that was not
my own ;)

I don't see their sequels as rehashes... But Mario Galaxy was a leap forward. The basic Gameplay remained the same... I didn't really dig Mario 64 and Sunshine...I didn't finish either...

By the way, I dunno how you can call Punch Out a rehash...the first sequel in 15 years...

Mario64 and Zelda OCarina of time made were revolutionary for their time.
They changed how games were made and played. Having played both m64,
sunshine and Galaxy, i would personally say that the last two were certainly
not as innovative as m64. But then thats my opinion and u have yours but
perhaps your not in a postion to say since u didnt really finish m64?
Galaxy is certainly not the jump that i expected. In fact i thought it
a capable game at best. Better than Sunshine though.

As for punch out not being a rehash, feel free to take that point. Im not
really interested. The list of games i mentioned hav all had a sequel or
a number of sequels and generally comprise the benchmark of each new
nintendo system. I just feel that there getting a bit old in the tooth and
are really limited to the new generation of gamers who are unfamilar with the
franchise.



But you also don't...want more people to game with? That...is well...odd. Why wouldn't you want to play with others? Do you hate other people? (You may hate me by now...but that's normal...you got into a debate with Alucards...they don't end. Welcome to Foxkei!)

Of course i dont hate people and i find it odd that u came to this conclusion. I feel you presume too much and are lingering from the subject.
Im not on trial here, the game industry is. But i supose you might want to discredit me, especilally if my opinions hav in some way offended your ego lol :P

I wouldnt say that i hate you. Perhaps slighly amussed at the replies.
Im really not that shallow to get wound up over something as silly as two people disagreeing over something so trivial. Gaming is not my life, perhaps
it yours. But then i would be assuming too much ;)


You may not consider yourself "hardcore" but you certainly think your better then the supposed "casuals". Guess how I know? You just refereed to them as "the lowest common denominator."

You can pick apart any sentence or paragraph and use some word out of
context. My core complaint is that games are far removed from the innovation
and originality that inspired me years ago. There are many factors, one of
which has to do with the rise and impact of the casual gamer. The lowest
common denominator is only a term and is not used in a derogatory or
negative way. But now were going into semantics.

Before this becomes a futile attemtp to change each others minds, perhaps
we ll just agree to disagree :D

Didnt mean to double post but im replying to two members

[AlucardsFate]

Of course i dont hate people and i find it odd that u came to this conclusion. I feel you presume too much and are lingering from the subject.
Im not on trial here, the game industry is. But i supose you might want to discredit me, especilally if my opinions hav in some way offended your ego lol :P

I wouldnt say that i hate you. Perhaps slighly amussed at the replies.
Im really not that shallow to get wound up over something as silly as two people disagreeing over something so trivial. Gaming is not my life, perhaps
it yours. But then i would be assuming too much ;)

I do have an ego...but it just seems unusual to me that anyone would think...that more people enjoying and understanding something you like...is bad...

You can pick apart any sentence or paragraph and use some word out of
context. My core complaint is that games are far removed from the innovation
and originality that inspired me years ago. There are many factors, one of
which has to do with the rise and impact of the casual gamer. The lowest
common denominator is only a term and is not used in a derogatory or
negative way. But now were going into semantics.

Before this becomes a futile attemtp to change each others minds, perhaps
we ll just agree to disagree :D

Didnt mean to double post but im replying to two members

Futile? Well if I were trying to change your mind...I suppose.

But how else am I supposed to take it? "Lowest Common Denominator" is inherently negative...unless your talking about fractions. I could walk up to someone and call them an asshole...then say "Oh I didn't mean it in a bad way" But that means nothing. There is no other way to mean it.

Agree to disagree? *snicker*

I forgot...your new. Hi! I'm AlucardsFate...I don't agree to disagree....hahahaha

[Grand_OoF]

I was refering more to the multiplatform titles that appear on all three consoles. Another bane of the gaming world! lol Unique IP are better
suited to their respective platforms. In fact i wish more was done to
increase the number of platform exlusives. There little point these
days to own more than one console.

I agree. By trying to market to all three consoles, no one really works on the particular strengths of a console. That's an excellent point.


Whether your talking about there predessors or direct sequels..the answer
is very little but games like halo1 and gears of war certainly added to
the distinction of existing and future fps. Most do very little to raise the bar so to speak..

I suppose it's just because outside of a few exceptions (BioShock, Duke Nukem), FPSes never did much for me, so I'm not sure what exactly made Halo so revolutionary or, as you said, add to the distinction of FPSes. The only thing that Halo seems to have done for the genre/industry is make them all about aliens. ...Presumably because killing hostile, ugly aliens is a lot easier to stomach then killing hostile, possibly ugly humans.

I dont consider this problem exclusive to nintendo. You've used some
good examples but i feel that gaming in general regardless of which
platform it appears on does little to innovate and excite.

I dont like whats familar. I genuinely look forward to new titles (okami,
little big planet,etc) and love being suprised. Unfortuanltey a games
success is determined by how well it sells. Not by its content or originality.

Well my friend, then you are in a small number. Which isn't bad. I feel the same way. But I'm simply stating that the majority of gamers (and people in general) don't really like what's new...at least not initially. We are creatures of habit, after all.

You are right though. It's not a Nintendo exclusive problem (Little Big Planet is an excellent example). BUT...I was refering to Nintendo specifically, because the argument seemed you were suggesting Nintendo specifically is a culprit for rehasing and unoriginality. Which...they have been guilty of. I was merely providing instances as to why that is.

Im not concened whether my fellow peer understands me or not.

Oh, we all are. Trust me. We like to THINK nothing anyone ever says to us can hurt or persuade our opinion. But if you have friends then chances are the issue has come up.

If it didn't, why bother making a well thought-out response to Alucard and I? Why not just go "Wel your both f**king losers an i'm awesome and rite! ha ha ha!" (Also, I suspect you don't do that because you're NOT a douchebag...but that's not the point I'm making.)

Just dissapointed with much of the gaming scene. Aside from the
excellent 360 Live service that changed the way we play games,
I havent really got excited over anything since portal or Braid.

I dunno if I'd call the addition of Live Service (or online in general) such a great feat, considering we've effectively isolated ourselves from people, which was entirely the opposite point of multiplayer in the first place...but that's my opinion.

Grandpa, grandma, mum and da can do whatever they want. IMO I just think the energy and time utilised on marketing to the casual gamer could be better spent on making me happy :P I know that sounds illogical but the hell with it lol. The truth is out.

It's not illogical to think that way...per sey. Everyone wants to have their needs meet. It's illogical only in the sense that from a marketing stand point, you're definetly not highest priority right now.

Speaking for myself, right now I don't have much time for games. And I certainly don't make enough money to buy all the ones I want. I make enough money to get something for myself...but then I also have to worry about bills, food, clothing, etc. etc. Why focus on me, the dedicated gamer since age 8, when my parents have a steady income and can afford to do things like...oh...buy a couple of Wiis.

What I will say about your opinion is its selfish. I'm not saying you're not entitled to be entertained...but why can't non-traditional gamers have some fun too? Why does everyone have to conform to a typical niche ideology in order to have fun. Maybe Grandpa doesn't like killing often depicted...he's probably killed more REAL people and that sorta sucks the fun out of the gratuitious violence of GTA and its ilk. So he wants to play golf, but maybe getting out of the house these days is harder for him.

...Are you or I in any place to deny him that right?

As Alucard said, the existence of these games or gamers doesn't change anything really. Yes, they exist. That doesn't mean you have to buy those games or enjoy them. Just accept the fact that some people do.

http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp332/NintendoFB19/box-l-1.jpg
Unless it's this. You never have to accept someone likes this. The people who do you are free to mock as necessary.

The problem does not only lie with nintendo as you said. Perhaps gaming
is as far at it can go in this generation. Perhaps my expectations are
too high, perhaps its not all in my head and gaming really is at its nadir.
Whatever the case, i'll likely play less and less games as times goes by
and maybe its enevitable that 90% of most games will be crap and
saturate the market for years to come. At the end of the day i ll certainly cheer on those developers who takes chances and offer something
different. In fact i look forward to being suprised and will gladly share some praise when i make a review here at Foxkei ;)

There is nothing wrong with high expectations. High expectations put developers in their place and force them to look at their follies and try again.

Sadly, about 90% of all entertainment these days falls into the category you described, not just video games. Perhaps someday it will be fixed. Until then, I hope to see you write a review. I shall look forward to it.

I didnt say that it didnt. Youve quoted from another post that was not
my own ;)

No I know. I know that wasn't you. Sorry if it seemed that way. Sadly, I added that in AFTER I posted, and it's harder to identify the quote's original speaker by their name after you've already made a post.

Agree to disagree? *snicker*

I forgot...your new. Hi! I'm AlucardsFate...I don't agree to disagree....hahahaha

Yeaaah...sorry Rubicant. That's not a phrase in Alucard's dictionary. We've all found that out the HARD way.